Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | IcyWindows's commentslogin

I don't see how this is different than things replaced decades ago:

Music is a human endeavor and musical recordings hurt musicians, bands, orchestras, etc. Especially those starting out.


This feels like a troll comment, but I'll bite.

Mathematics requires substantial creativity at every level. There is problem selection, conjecture formation, proof strategies, definitions, models, and explanations. Yes, it's constrained and guided by logic and rigor but having logic won't give you creativity.

> Music is a human endeavor and musical recordings hurt musicians, bands, orchestras, etc. Especially those starting out.

The medium it is recorded on has no bearing on what composed the music. If people don't get rewarded for composing they won't. Same with mathematics. If people don't get paid for being creative they just won't be creative.

I am not saying I agree with everything in the article. OP of this thread just made a low effort comment that was addressed in lengths during the article.


I should be able to have a different opinion without being a troll.

My point is to say many things have been replaced by technology over the years, but people do them as hobbies.


Sure, given infinite time, they could diligently try to reproduce every bug across every version of any given product or open source library from a team at Microsoft.

However, if you have 1000s of reports a day, many of them vague with the person hoping it's close enough to a real issue to get paid, it makes sense to me personally that one needs prioritize active issues over tracking down when other issues were fixed.


It sucks to have your work made redundant, so it's hard to understand if their critism is founded or just sour grapes.

Is that really correct?

Reading the page, the software needs an update due to Apple breaking it, but 2019 is out of support so Microsoft won't fix the breaking change.


Do they even count towards safety if they aren't in release mode?

You can enable them in release mode optionally. But I would say not. Really we need ISAs to provide a no-overhead way to check integer overflow.

Which "Other jurisdictions manage this"?

I have lived in places with more rules, but that meant we just didn't do it. We eventually gave up.


I have read the rules are tighter in most EU nations.

There is jurisdiction shopping of course. If china or wherever wants to have really lax rules, and that means production moves there, I’m not sure what the answer is.

But, for this product (making plexiglass like things), I expect all the consumer production has gone overseas anyway. This is defense / aerospace, so it probably can’t move.


The answer is actually really easy, and it's been implemented successfully before: selective import taxes.

You set import taxes so that they offset price advantages. If a country has shitty environmental laws, crappy labor protections, etc. then you prices that into their import taxes. That way they don't gain any advantages in a race to the bottom based on things that you care about in your own country.

If a country adopts better environment laws, labor projections, etc. then you lower the import tariffs you charge on that country's relevant goods


Or we could just let it go offshore? Do we have to do everything here?

They are not saying that we have to do everything here, they are saying: If you want to move your mfg. to a country that has less environmental regulation enforcement, labor law enforcement and other things that we care about here, then the goods you are shipping back should be tariffed accordingly.

If we as a people pass environmental laws & labor laws because we feel that these things are important then why are we accepting products that are made in violation of our standards.


Exactly.

But... but taxes and tariffs bad!!!

Snark aside, the widespread lack of understanding of basic economic concepts is actually a real problem. On one side, you got an utter buffoon like Trump acting like taxes and tariffs are his personal revenge sledgehammer to wield however he wants, and on the other side you got (an awful lot of) short-term rewarders who will accept just about any predictable long-term consequence for short-term "lower prices for consumers".


I don't know. Someone above mentioned that don't like their browser's date picker. Maybe they are a "middle management figure", but probably not.

the date picker is the one i really disagree with because it really is terrible on most browsers

Not liking it and having the conceit to replace it (and more importantly, shove your replacement into prod) are entirely different actions. The first is always legal. The second is more often questionable than not

Which company doesn't do that?


I'm trained on protected works. Do I need to pay royalties?


If you produce them verbatim or in significant enough portions, yes.


> I'm trained on protected works.

That someone, at some point, paid for.

I'd like to understand why I can't use a song in one of my videos without permission/payment, but an AI company can train models using that song without having either.

I'm not anti-AI. I'd just like to see companies play by the rules everyone else has to follow.


> I'd like to understand why I can't use a song in one of my videos without permission/payment, but an AI company can train models using that song without having either.

Because training isn't redistribution.

You can also listen to the song and make a new one that sounds similar, just like the AI can.


To do that training, you must first obtain the item with the content you require. Did OpenAI purchase a copy of every book they trained their models on?

Answer: They did not. That is literally why there are dozens of ongoing lawsuits in progress.


For songs, it's not that hard to legally get access to it, I think. I'm not sure if Spotify can legally prevent you from using songs for AI training for example.


> I'd like to understand why I can't use a song in one of my videos without permission/payment, but an AI company can train models using that song without having either.

Because when you say you are “using” the song, what you mean is that you are distributing copies of the song, which is protected by copyright.

When AI companies train on the song, the model is learning from it. Outside of the rare cases of memorisation, this is not distributing copies and so copyright doesn’t have any say in the matter.

Learning isn’t copying, so copyright doesn’t get involved at all.


I appreciate your comment, but you answered as if this question had been answered legally. It has not.

The New York Times is suing both OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement. The Authors Guild is suing OpenAI. Getty Images is suing Stability AI. Disney is suing Midjourney. Universal Music Group and Sony have filed suits against multiple AI companies.

> so copyright doesn’t get involved at all.

The dozens of ongoing cases that discredit that statement.


Which statement of mine do you think is not settled law? Which law do you think is being broken and how?

Your objection doesn’t make sense. In the event that an AI company loses a lawsuit for copyright infringement based on simply training on copyrighted works, the answer to you saying you’d like to understand why they can do it and you can’t is simply “your premise is wrong; neither of you can”.


> Which statement of mine do you think is not settled law?

I object to your statement that "copyright doesn’t get involved at all" when that is objectively untrue. If that was true, many of the world's largest companies wouldn't be spending tens of millions of dollars to have that question answered in court. Go to any law-focused forum, and you will find attorneys arguing over these questions.

To train a model using a book, you must first obtain a copy of that book. Did OpenAI purchase a copy of every book not already in the public domain used during training? They did not.

Some of the suits I mentioned claim that OpenAI literally stole copies of books to train its models.

My point is that the copyright question has not been answered. If the NYT, et. al. win, it will be a watershed moment for how AI companies pay for training data moving forward.


I'd like to understand why I can't use a song in one of my videos without permission/payment, but an AI company can train models using that song without having either.

You're right, it's an unjust situation. And you may note that no one else besides the AI companies has made any progress at all towards changing it.

Copyright will soon die, having outlived its usefulness to society. Whether the knife is held by someone named Stallman or someone named Altman is of little consequence.


One could argue most screenplays are derivative.


I heard somewhere there's like eight basic plots or something. and everything else is just an elaboration on that


Hollywood has extraordinarily well-defined controls for keeping things legal and everyone in the chain compensated. Plus a separate Oscars category for it.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: