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It has, but due to the orthodoxy of thinking in terms of the liberal conception of human rights in the US Constitution, other voices aren't listened to much - their views are different to the orthodoxy such that they are considered heretical and against liberty.

It's a circular argument in the sense that because liberty and freedom are defined for the mainstream framework, any outside framework, in order to be accepted by adherents of the mainstream framework, must provide a vision compatible with the existing framework.

We're stuck in a hole in terms of what can be done outside academia in the real world.



I'm curious as to why this comment is being downvoted; if anyone could offer an explanation I'd be grateful to learn where I went wrong.


Downvoting is not being wrong, it is being disagreed with. It is a win in my book if you ruffle some feathers in your opinions, it means you’re not just restating the majority belief.

In terms of a graphical model, voting is dependent on not only opinion but also motivation. Somebody that thinks you’re wrong is more motivated to downvote than someone who thinks you’re right - one has an ax to grind, one does not.


I learned this principle early on (and I think it's an unfortunate facet of HN as compared to, say, Reddit where Reddiquette is that one does not downvote for mere disagreement) though I also learned that HN is a place with a great deal of intelligent people who enjoy to think about problems - presumably, there would be some reason behind the disagreement. HN threads are known for pessimism and critique, so it's curious when a HNers feathers are ruffled they don't say anything.

Though, you're right - I think a lack of reason given for disagreement itself can reveal something interesting - not only that they may not have a reason, but that they can't articulate the reason well enough. In real life we often don't voice disagreement for either of those reasons. In my view, HN is no different.


> and I think it's an unfortunate facet of HN as compared to, say, Reddit where Reddiquette [...]

You are not supposed to downvote when disagreeing. You are also not supposed to complain here about mod votes. You should read HN netiquette and email them instead.

Btw, down voting based on disagreement happens on Reddit just as well. Reddit is a bunch of smaller, semi autonomous communities where quality differs. You could even say quality differs per HN thread.


>You are not supposed to downvote when disagreeing.

Both pg and dang have expressed that on HN you really can downvote if you simply disagree.

>You are also not supposed to complain here about mod votes.

Although I was more annoyed at the time, I wasn't trying to complain, I really just wanted to know what problems people had with my post.

>down voting based on disagreement happens on Reddit just as well.

It happens, but at least it's against the etiquette of the site as set by the admins - various subs may have their policies, true.


> Both pg and dang have expressed that on HN you really can downvote if you simply disagree.

Where?

I admit I didn't find either way at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I did find this:

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

> Please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

The former obviously applied.

As for the latter, while you didn't comment about HN turning into Reddit, I'd say comparisons in general fit this rule.

> It happens, but at least it's against the etiquette of the site as set by the admins - various subs may have their policies, true.

AFAICT it happens rampantly, and far more than it does here. That is my very subjective experience, I'm sure everyone has their own, which is why such a discussion leads to no good. It isn't objective/unbiased, nor intellectual.


This has been discussed extensively on HN over many years:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314




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