> that's not fair because most of the times you have the choice to work for another company. i do refuse to work for google or microsoft or other companies if i have a choice, but if i had no choice i would accept their offer. it's a matter of degree and opportunity
And for yourself that's fine. Do what you want. But the problem here is you are expecting others to follow suit or they are social pariah. If someone can make 600k at facebook and 500k at amnesty internarional and they choose facebook, as much as I abhorr facebook(even called for mark to be jailed!) power to them for evaluating their needs and obligations and making a choice. It is not your place to ask othere to morally justify their choices of employment so you can cancel them, to the contrary, doing so makes any problem worse because now you've alienated one more person (with a fat wallet) that you could have convinced to be onboard with your ideas.
> but if your attitude is that you don't care what your government (or employer) is doing, as long as you get your paycheck, then we will likely not become friends. in fact we are more likely to become friends if we disagree on issues but are able to have honest and open debates about that.
I never said that, I said I don't care what other people are doing to make a living. You seem to confuse governments and companies like so many today. Companies have no legal authority to make laws or influence politics except by playing this "with me or against me" game you are giving them that power.
Earning a paycheck at a company you disagree with means you take money from them and are free to spend it on contributions of your choice. And not alienating people who work ar companies you don't like means you can be their friends and convince them to regulate or criminalize whatever practice you think companies should not do and make actual change. But your cancel mindset just alienates people and makes things worse. If I decided to work at some company and people like you tell me I should quit to be their friends, guess what, we could have been friends and made change happen but now I will oppose you not because you are wrong because you chose to make me your enemy and to control and manipulate my life by trying to force me to make employment decisions.
> first of all, refusing to pay tax won't change anything. if i want to change my country i do need to be a lawful citizen and try to influence my peers until we have a majority that will be able to influence the country to stop spending taxes on such things.
Yes, I agree. You are right in being a lawful citizen and convincing your peers to make change happen. The disconnect here is you think paying taxes to support a government you disagree with is fine but working at a company you disagree with and in a similar way by earning as much as you can and exposing yourself to others and changing their minds, making change happen inside the company and outside the company by using your finances is wrong. It is fine to support a government you don't like so long as you work to civically promote change but your hypocrisy is that you think it stops being fine when others do the same thing except the organization is private instead or government and unlike paying tax people get paid money enabling them to have more power to make change happen.
> disagree. following the orders of your superiors does make you culpable if those orders turn out to be illegal or cause harm, and you knew that they would cause harm
I did not say that. Following orders is making a decision. Following orders to cook dinner or to kill someone are different decisions. You are culpable for the orders you follow, you are not culpable for feeding the other person who followed the order to kill. Big difference. However, if you could have stopped that person from killing or if you could have reported him after the fact and stayed quiet, you are culpable to some degree,but still, not for murder.
> hitler's janitor was most likely carefully selected as a trustworthy person, and probably would not have been a person that i would have liked to be friends with.
I agree, but he is still not responsible for the holocause and I am sure was not tried at nuremberg.
you think paying taxes to support a government you disagree with is fine but working at a company you disagree with and in a similar way by earning as much as you can and exposing yourself to others and changing their minds, making change happen inside the company and outside the company by using your finances is wrong
i can't avoid paying taxes, but i can choose where i work. you missed the point where i said that it makes a difference if someone works there just to get a paycheck (and doesn't care what the company does) and someone who actively tries to change things in that company. the latter is fine.
Yes you can, you get sent to prison though. And you can choose to get paid less then that means less medical care, more suffering in other ways,etc...
What you are saying is the suffering of prison is too much but other suffering other people have to endure is not so bad so in order to comply with your moral code, they have to accept the same amount of suffering you can accept.
A moral code that is worth getting paid less but not worth prison is not only cheap but very much hypocritical when you hold others to it. "Suffer what is right but only up to my endurance level, not more and not less".
And you can choose to get paid less then that means less medical care
not where i am from. everyone gets the same medical care, only those that earn so little that they can't pay the normal rate get extra support or a lower rate for the same service. that's a problem you should fix in your country so that people can actually live to their chosen moral code without having to suffer for it.
A moral code that is worth getting paid less but not worth prison is not only cheap but very much hypocritical when you hold others to it
how is that? not breaking laws is part of my moral code as it is part of the moral code of most people in this world. so if you were to accept prison for something you believe in you would be violating my moral code.
how is that hypocritical? we do the best we can to improve the world, with the means that we have, within the legal framework that we are in.
i come from a culture that values social responsibility, and working for a company that exploits people or pollutes the environment, is not socially responsible.
And for yourself that's fine. Do what you want. But the problem here is you are expecting others to follow suit or they are social pariah. If someone can make 600k at facebook and 500k at amnesty internarional and they choose facebook, as much as I abhorr facebook(even called for mark to be jailed!) power to them for evaluating their needs and obligations and making a choice. It is not your place to ask othere to morally justify their choices of employment so you can cancel them, to the contrary, doing so makes any problem worse because now you've alienated one more person (with a fat wallet) that you could have convinced to be onboard with your ideas.
> but if your attitude is that you don't care what your government (or employer) is doing, as long as you get your paycheck, then we will likely not become friends. in fact we are more likely to become friends if we disagree on issues but are able to have honest and open debates about that.
I never said that, I said I don't care what other people are doing to make a living. You seem to confuse governments and companies like so many today. Companies have no legal authority to make laws or influence politics except by playing this "with me or against me" game you are giving them that power.
Earning a paycheck at a company you disagree with means you take money from them and are free to spend it on contributions of your choice. And not alienating people who work ar companies you don't like means you can be their friends and convince them to regulate or criminalize whatever practice you think companies should not do and make actual change. But your cancel mindset just alienates people and makes things worse. If I decided to work at some company and people like you tell me I should quit to be their friends, guess what, we could have been friends and made change happen but now I will oppose you not because you are wrong because you chose to make me your enemy and to control and manipulate my life by trying to force me to make employment decisions.
> first of all, refusing to pay tax won't change anything. if i want to change my country i do need to be a lawful citizen and try to influence my peers until we have a majority that will be able to influence the country to stop spending taxes on such things.
Yes, I agree. You are right in being a lawful citizen and convincing your peers to make change happen. The disconnect here is you think paying taxes to support a government you disagree with is fine but working at a company you disagree with and in a similar way by earning as much as you can and exposing yourself to others and changing their minds, making change happen inside the company and outside the company by using your finances is wrong. It is fine to support a government you don't like so long as you work to civically promote change but your hypocrisy is that you think it stops being fine when others do the same thing except the organization is private instead or government and unlike paying tax people get paid money enabling them to have more power to make change happen.
> disagree. following the orders of your superiors does make you culpable if those orders turn out to be illegal or cause harm, and you knew that they would cause harm
I did not say that. Following orders is making a decision. Following orders to cook dinner or to kill someone are different decisions. You are culpable for the orders you follow, you are not culpable for feeding the other person who followed the order to kill. Big difference. However, if you could have stopped that person from killing or if you could have reported him after the fact and stayed quiet, you are culpable to some degree,but still, not for murder.
> hitler's janitor was most likely carefully selected as a trustworthy person, and probably would not have been a person that i would have liked to be friends with.
I agree, but he is still not responsible for the holocause and I am sure was not tried at nuremberg.