OK. Let's look at my argument. I posit that the core purpose of government is social order. I also imply that this is primarily provided through rule of law (police and legislatures) and sovereignty (military protection).
You state that it is difficult to have social order without welfare and social security, because the poor and elderly would be dying on the streets. This example doesn't dispute my core argument that government provides social order. In fact, it supports it, showing that social order is necessary and provided through government.
Remember, I argue that the core function of government is social order (which you seem to agree with), and that the primary means of providing this order is through police and military. I agree that there are other secondary means of providing social order (welfare and social security), but they can all be linked to the primary means of social order.
Here is an example: Let's say that we do not have any form of welfare or social security (America didn't for nearly half of its existence). When times get particularly tough, the poor may start stealing more in order to survive (notwithstanding the impact of food banks, churches, and other charitable organizations). If theft goes up, the government's primary means of providing social order is strained, because police must protect against more thieves.
Here is how I support my claim that police and military are the primary means of providing social order. Can our government exist without welfare? It has. Can it exist without the public school system? It has. A government that ONLY created and enforced rules is still a government. A government stops being a government if it cannot create and enforce laws, even if it provides all of these other things, will quickly fall into anarchy. Why pay taxes if there is no threat of imprisonment?
This might be an interesting argument from the point of view of pure philosophy or ideology, but it is a pointless argument when discussing practical politics. It does not matter which is the primary means of providing social order.
It is particularly pointless because "being a government" is not an interesting measure outside of the realms of philosophy and ideology. There are very many governments that would have done the world a great service by ceasing to "be a government".
Personally, I'd argue that a government that provides no welfare are often a net negative - many of the early nation states saw enormous societal harm resulting from law enforcement and military being used as a bulwark against the effects of the lack of working welfare systems.
E.g. I'm from Norway. A large proportion of the Norwegian emigrants who settled in the US (like the Irish) came during periods of extreme poverty and often starvation in Norway (Norway didn't become wealthy really until oil finds in the 60's, and until at least the 20's it was really a quite poor country). Poor people could get forcibly put to work in poor-houses, as they were in many other countries. Yet the state at the time used the police to restrict emigration:
You needed permission, or you could get thrown in jail for trying to leave. It was seen as essential in order to provide social order. As it was in many other countries.
> Here is how I support my claim that police and military are the primary means of providing social order. Can our government exist without welfare? It has. Can it exist without the public school system?
Can it exist without government run police? Many governments have historically largely deferred policing to volunteers (UK for example, where volunteers still have a role in policing). Without military? There are examples of that too - the modern nation state with standing armies is a relatively new invention and prior to that at least some societies had what amounted to functioning governments without military or police - Iceland, for example, which had a functioning parliament and established laws and court system for hundreds of years before it got a government run police and military.
While the nature of a government that is not a monopoly provider of violence and force is by necessity very different, that does not mean they can not exist.
You state that it is difficult to have social order without welfare and social security, because the poor and elderly would be dying on the streets. This example doesn't dispute my core argument that government provides social order. In fact, it supports it, showing that social order is necessary and provided through government.
Remember, I argue that the core function of government is social order (which you seem to agree with), and that the primary means of providing this order is through police and military. I agree that there are other secondary means of providing social order (welfare and social security), but they can all be linked to the primary means of social order.
Here is an example: Let's say that we do not have any form of welfare or social security (America didn't for nearly half of its existence). When times get particularly tough, the poor may start stealing more in order to survive (notwithstanding the impact of food banks, churches, and other charitable organizations). If theft goes up, the government's primary means of providing social order is strained, because police must protect against more thieves.
Here is how I support my claim that police and military are the primary means of providing social order. Can our government exist without welfare? It has. Can it exist without the public school system? It has. A government that ONLY created and enforced rules is still a government. A government stops being a government if it cannot create and enforce laws, even if it provides all of these other things, will quickly fall into anarchy. Why pay taxes if there is no threat of imprisonment?