Secret agreements are automatically suspect but this seems like more of the same rather than a change in direction.
This is partly a result of the move to multi-lateral trade talks (bad idea but when WTO rounds take a decade it's not unexpected), and partly inertia - there is little common agreement on how to prevent the next crash, so without a better idea we seem to follow the inverse of Einsteins quip - "the definition of insanity is repeating the last mistakes but hoping for a different outcome
Minor thought : this leak is still a pretty big deal. But it feels like wikileaks is the wrong place for this - like the main media organisations should have already got their investigatory acts together and made wiki leaks irrelevant.
...like the main media organisations should have already got their investigatory acts together and made wiki leaks irrelevant.
On the whole, the "main media organizations" are an entrenched part of the system they'd need to be reporting on in order to do that job. That's a pretty major "biting the hand that feeds them" sort of impediment.
> There's also not a market for things that are hard to explain like multilateral trade agreements.
Financial institutions, macro-oriented asset managers and companies with multinational supply chains and long-term assets are each affected by these dynamics. Gaining intelligence on the nature and implications of trade negotiations is huge business.
I spent a good amount of time, as a trader, trying to anticipate how sundry domestic political variables constrained international actors, thereby predicting the odds of various trade structures arising from a forum (or of a forum even materialising in the first place).
>Minor thought : this leak is still a pretty big deal. But it feels like wikileaks is the wrong place for this - like the main media organisations should have already got their investigatory acts together and made wiki leaks irrelevant.
Wall Street and the mainstream media go hand in hand. That is why this would never have been leaked by them, and why they won't give it anything except the most cursory reporting now it is leaked.
If you're waiting for them to get their investigatory acts together you'll be waiting forever. Wikileaks exists because they refuse to.
I think there are very few conspiracies, just confluences of self-interests. Newspapers are dying, but their original need - to publish what was originally hidden, to shine a light on government, still exists and seems to be well served by the Wikileaks core of true anonymity - and so faced with destruction I would expect some newspapers to morph into Wikileaks with a two hundred year track record.
I am seeing this in WaPo and Guardian and maybe al-jazera
It's not a conspiracy any more than the media being 98% fervently pro war in the run up to Iraq was a conspiracy.
It's simply the combination of a dry (but fantastically important) subject and a high likelihood of making powerful enemies by reporting on it.
These things won't stifle reporting on this leak entirely, but they will result in the reporting being significantly muted, conciliatory and perfunctory. E.g. like Krugman's absurd "nothing to see here, move along people" post about TTP: http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2014/02/tanks-or-cars-why-krug...
Like right and wron I think we are looking at more greyed versions of conspiracy
- idealistic - will choose the "right path" as a differentiator or ethical choice
- conspiracy - consciously works with others for a purpose known to be wrong.
But inher wren those we have at least
- cock-up - whilst intentions are good the implementation fails
- head-in-sand - while the going is good and the consequences are not clear (but obviously not good) ignore and follow the common herd. This seems to be the majority of the financial crash, and is a regulatory fail not a conspiracy.
> Minor thought : this leak is still a pretty big deal. But it feels like wikileaks is the wrong place for this - like the main media organisations should have already got their investigatory acts together and made wiki leaks irrelevant.
> proponents of TISA aim to further deregulate global financial services markets.
But...
> The draft Financial Services Annex sets rules which would assist the expansion of financial multi-nationals – mainly headquartered in New York, London, Paris and Frankfurt
These multi-nationals are purely a product of regulaiton (in this case, more specifically, regulatory capture). Without regulation, there would be thousands of healthy medium-size banks in the US, as there apparently used to be.
Overall, to characterize this as "deregulation" is completely sloppy thinking. We are never going to get a better situation when people think sloppily like this. To do so is, in practice, a moral crime. It supports maintaining the status quo through confusion.
International rules that enforce a reduction in national rules (deregulation) which will empower multi-nationals is not the contradiction you appear to think it is.
> These multi-nationals are purely a product of regulaiton (in this case, more specifically, regulatory capture).
Well they're purely a product of regulation only in the broadest sense: without regulations (rules and laws) you wouldn't have international trade, and so there would be no multi-nationals (or civilized societies).
Your more specific case ('regulatory capture') is an example of weakened regulation through infiltration / corruption so your statement appears to read: Multinationals are a purely a product of regulation (more specifically, weakened regulation).
> Without regulation, there would be thousands of healthy medium-size banks in the US, as there apparently used to be.
What do you mean by 'Without regulation'? If taken literally it would be impossible to define what a 'bank' is, so I assume your definition of 'Without regulation' involves regulations - which makes for a very confusing definition.
You imply there is an optimal outcome (thousands of medium-sized banks) being suppressed through regulation. What regulations force all banks to move quickly to a few larger banks? Usually these sorts of market regulations are about stopping that practice: for instance in Australia there is a 'four pillars policy' which stops mergers of the four largest banks. Without this regulation there would be less competition.
> Overall, to characterize this as "deregulation" is completely sloppy thinking. We are never going to get a better situation when people think sloppily like this. To do so is, in practice, a moral crime. It supports maintaining the status quo through confusion.
Characterising deregulation as deregulation is sloppy thinking? Let's back up: there is an international agreement which aims to enforce further deregulation of nation states... and characterising this as deregulation is sloppy thinking?
You are conflating two different and commonly-used meanings of the word "regulation."
In (fairly) common parlance, "regulation" means governmental rules that violate individual sovereignty. For examples, laws like Sarbanes-Oxley. These are laws under which the government initiates force against market participants to try to force a desired outcome.
Proper laws merely protect individual sovereignty. For example, you can't use force against someone, whether physically or through possessing something that violates a contract with them (which is fraud). Only the government can use force, and only in retaliation to protect sovereignty.
The ethical basis for this distinction is that it is in everyone'e self-interest to be protected from the initiaion of force in general, while it is against everyone's self-interest to be vulnerable to the initiaition of force, in general. Thus, regulatory laws are wrong.
P.S. If Australia only have four banks, instead of forty or four hundred, it is because of regulation (in my sense of the word).
> In (fairly) common parlance, "regulation" means governmental rules that violate individual sovereignty.
Common parlance is found on Wikipedia: "A regulation is a rule or law designed to control or govern conduct."
The narrower, ideological definition you supply may be to your liking but isn't (even fairly) common parlance.
A clearer term for you to use would simply be 'bad regulation'.
Your definition also implies that governmental rules that protect individual sovereignty (or don't impact upon it) are not the 'regulation' you protest against, and a clearer term for that would simply be 'good regulation'.
There are obviously regulations which protect individual sovereignty: environmental laws stopping anyone or any entity dumping toxic waste which impacts on the health and well-being of those individuals is but one of many obvious examples.
So there are good regulations and bad regulations, and you are against bad regulations, but you choose to call them simply 'regulations' which is rather confusing.
You also conclude: 'Thus, regulatory laws are wrong'.
Better to use the clearer, more correct statement 'Thus, bad regulatory laws are wrong'. Very uncontroversial and agreeable.
I think it could actually be argued that redefining a term like 'regulation' as you are doing is actually harmful to individual sovereignty. The common meaning of 'regulation' also covers regulation that is protective of individual sovereignty, and trying to promulgate a pejorative sense of the term merely enables moochers and looters to further hijack the term to weaken those regulations which protect individual sovereignty.
For instance, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence are not considered to be "regulation."
Your proposed terms of "good regulation" and "bad regulation" ignore my explanation of support or violation of sovereignty and are just a poor attempt to discredit my (correct) position.
Maybe in your particular social or intellectual circles, but not in common parlance. This is obvious by comparing the dictionary definition with your definition: the former is general and widely understood, while the later is values-laden and requires an appreciation of a particular philosophical position.
> For instance, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence are not considered to be "regulation."
They are by definition regulations. If you read the definition of regulation, you would have to agree they are regulations.
> Your proposed terms of "good regulation" and "bad regulation" ignore my explanation of support or violation of sovereignty and are just a poor attempt to discredit my (correct) position.
They specifically acknowledge and address your points around individual sovereignty - your assertions to the contrary indicate you haven't properly read what I wrote.
I called out an example of a 'good regulation' by your definition - an environmental law - to show how regulations can support individual sovereignty.
Leaving this point unanswered is what discredits your position. However it's clear to me this contortion around the meaning of 'regulation' is something impossible to honestly defend.
Well they're purely a product of regulation only in the broadest sense: without regulations (rules and laws) you wouldn't have international trade, and so there would be no multi-nationals (or civilized societies).
Has this been demonstrated conclusively? It seems like international trade probably would have come before international law.
My understanding that part of what caused the housing bubble crisis in the US was the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act by Bill Clinton. Besides, I suppose that governments, if they took their responsibility, could break up large, "too big to fail", banks, in the same way that Bell was.
I'm not sure why you think that an industry with so many instances of irresponsibility and dishonesty is fit to essentially govern itself more through deregulation.
GLB was signed by Clinton, but it was sent to his desk with a veto-proof majority. Destroying the American banking system was a bipartisan effort in stupidity.
Noted. I'm not interested in casting blame, all the more since as a foreigner, I can't really tell the difference between Republican and Democrat economic policies.
Overall, to characterize this as "deregulation" is completely sloppy thinking. We are never going to get a better situation when people think sloppily like this. To do so is, in practice, a moral crime. It supports maintaining the status quo through confusion.
Well put.
A problem with "deregulation" is that unless all regulations are being removed it's hard to tell what the new state of regulation will be.
There are some regulations that offer privileges, then other regulations that constrain those privileges.
Removing only the latter and calling it "deregulation" creates the impression that things will be more open or equal while doing the opposite.
Who are the people negotiating and agreeing to these 'agreements'(this, ACTA, etc) and what could their justification for keeping them secret possibly be?
Elected government officials from democratic countries and non-elected from non-democratic countries together. This is decided by politicians or bureaucrats representing government. I believe advisors from universities, think tanks and businesses are invited to speak.
The term "democracy" is kind of a fuzzy and abused word but if we limit its definition to include only the governments run by civilians voted in by fair enough, regularly occurring elections you could do worse. Democracies can have secrets, and in fact must if they want to achieve their interests. I am not sure why this would surprise anyone.
"Democracies can have secrets, and in fact must if they want to achieve their interests."
I can see how certain things can be justifiably kept secret in a democracy, like matters related to national security (military, intelligence, etc.). But secrecy in business and financial regulation is just corruption. Especially when the interests in question are those of private businesses and may not be in the best interests of the country as a whole - and if the deliberations are secret, how can we and our elected representatives decide whose interests are actually being promoted?
This. Wish i could upvote 10x. When the negotiations are secret, it's one thing. When the agreement itself is secret for longer than a (usa) president's term, that's another.
It's the draft that will be secret, not the final agreement.
I don't understand why this is so confusing: It's much easier for negotiators to propose a series of concessions and trade-offs in private, knowing that they'll only face political heat for those that actually make it into the final agreement.
It's also much easier for them to propose a series of trade-offs and concessions that primarily benefit their rich donors/friends rather than their electorates.
"""Declassify on: Five years from entry
into force of the TISA
agreement or, if no
agreement enters into
force, five years from the
close of the negotiations."""
WHy do you say "must have secrets"? What part of "democracy" (or even "representative democracy", a republic perhaps) axiomatically requires secrets of any sort? Trade agreement negotiations almost axiomatically do not require secrets. If they're "negotiations" then everything ends up coming out in the wash, eh?
Without secrecy concerning the details during negotiation, it would be very very hard to make trade agreements. Negotiation involves a lot of give and take. If that was all public, then as soon as our negotiators conceded on, say, some term that was going to help our automobile industry in order to gain some term that will help our garment industry, there would be a huge outcry from the automobile industry, and soon the negotiators would come under intense pressure to get that pro-automobile industry term back.
Secrecy, at least concerning the details, during negotiation gives the negotiators a better opportunity to work out a deal that best serves the interests of the country as a whole.
Note that I'm only talking about secrecy during negotiation. The result of the negotiations should be made public well before Congress votes on it, to give the country time to decide on whether to accept or not.
But as instantiated, the secrecy that the US Trade Reprentative uses and imposes is not this kind of secrecy at all. At least as near as those of us outside the TPP/ACTA negotiations can tell. The treaties do not become public until after they're negotiated and signed.
From leaked documents, it appears that inside the negotiations, there's really not the kind of secrecy you're imagining. Every part to ACTA, for example, just marked it up as they thought it should be, and then there was a lot of something (not public) to get to a final draft. That's not keeping a maximum (or minimum) position secret in order to gain advantage, that's just deciding how much of something can be foisted upon the global public without causing a revolution.
From my standpoint, the secrecy we get is of no use to anyone but corporate fat cats and insiders.
Secrecy is just incompatible with the democratic process.
People cant do informed choices and elect other people that represent them if the people in power make choices behind close doors.We are not talking about 2 corporations which are negociating something.
So no,"democracies" need no secrets. Or it says a lot about what the people in power think about their constituent.
Secrets protect those who are in power,secrets never protect the people.
You'r right. In a Democracy a secret trade deal could never happen because in a Democracy everything is decided on by its citizens, not elected officials.
However in the United States these decisions are not made by citizens but by elected officials voted in by citizens. Hence the United States is not a Democracy, but a Democratic Republic.
You can play with words as much as you want, the substance here is that citizens are purposely kept uninformed, and without information there is no such thing as informed consent, a core principle of democracy regardless of the technical details.
Plenty. It's very clearly intended to restrict the exact kinds of regulations that national governments would put into effect to clamp down on too big to fail institutions.
The kind that required humungous bailouts and are STILL taking outsized risks because the regulatory framework is still insufficient to prevent them from causing yet more systemic crises.
This is partly a result of the move to multi-lateral trade talks (bad idea but when WTO rounds take a decade it's not unexpected), and partly inertia - there is little common agreement on how to prevent the next crash, so without a better idea we seem to follow the inverse of Einsteins quip - "the definition of insanity is repeating the last mistakes but hoping for a different outcome
Minor thought : this leak is still a pretty big deal. But it feels like wikileaks is the wrong place for this - like the main media organisations should have already got their investigatory acts together and made wiki leaks irrelevant.
Just wondering ...