Yes, coupled with a 30 second load screen after every single death. I've never played any of the other games, but I can tell you after playing this for a while that this game is not for me due to how they implement the difficulty.
Just to give you an idea, it took me 7 or 8 years to beat Kingdom Hearts 1 because of how bad the camera was. I got to a point where I just walked away. I really dislike games that are difficult due to ackward controls, cheesy mechanics (such as enemies popping behind you in an area you just cleared), that sort of thing
I played it for a few hours but I got tired of things like
- you roll and the camera lifts up so you're staring down at yourself and can no longer see the enemies you rolled from
- if you hit the enemy at the end of your range your attack pushes them back further than your characters steps forward so you miss the followup attack and they end up killing you (or hurting you badly).
- Sometimes when you attack an enemy they'll slide sideways (I say sometimes, I mean quite often). I've seen them slide so far they slide behind the camera at which point you're guessing where they are based upon where they disappeared.
- Your attacks do random amounts of damage. Sometimes it takes 3 hits to kill a mob, sometimes 4 or 5. But because every attack uses stamina, you really want to use as few attacks as possible and sometimes you die for it because that 1 random enemy required an extra hit. I never figured out why.
- the healing items appeared to give a random amount of health back.
- Some of the level designs appeared to be such that it maximized the pain of the camera. One enemy in particular I'm thinking of is big and surroundedin by innumerable unbreakable boxes and such. He wasn't that difficult himself, but being able to avoid his attack successfull due to the aforementioned boxes, etc, was a tedious chore.
I can see the appeal to the game, but it just isn't for me. And this is coming from a guy who plays most games on hard. But there's a certain kind of difficulty I don't enjoy and unfortunately this game lands right square in the middle of it.
edit:
The thing that caused me to respond in the first place.
The game moves slow overall. You kill an enemy, he drops loot, but not immediately, so you end up waiting to see if he dropped loot. If he does, you run to the body, hit X, wait for the confirmation to pop up, hit X again, and then eventually go on about your day. When you're playing the same level over and over again it gets really time consumingly tedious. Add on to that the 30 second load screen (that's not an exaggeration) and you have a game that's pure tedium (atleast for me).
If you find the combat system annoying to the point where you lose interest in the game I would recommend watching the walkthrough/lore videos by EpicNameBro and study how he approaches combat.
The combat system can be VERY punishing if you don't pace yourself correctly or attack when you should defend. You don't really need to go slow, but you can't really play it like other games either.
Imho Bloodborne does not use "cheesy mechanics". For example, enemies don't pop behind you, they just ambush you (look above you / in side alleys). Once you get used to the system the camera is rarely an issue, damage is very predictable and healing is not random. Exploring is also generously rewarded and there are usually significant shortcuts you can unlock to reach bosses.
Also, try out other weapons. Perhaps the Threaded Cane is not a good match for you.
I realize the game is neither perfect nor for everyone. I just hope you'll try it a bit more! :D
No, it matters which part of the weapon hits the enemy. With the hammer for instance, you really need to aim it right - to hit the enemy with the head part and not the hilt part.
Some of your other gripes can also be summarized as "you must become proficient at the mechanics" and the rest is fucking bullshit which Miyazaki put in because he hates you.
I figured that's what it was, but I couldn't ever see it. Someone else created the character so I didn't choose the weapon, but it was a long whip/blade thing that would open and close (for faster/slower attacks). It may just be harder to see with that particular weapon, I did actively try and check if that was the case.
For the point about the mechanics, there are some mechanics I simply don't want to deal with because I don't personally find them fun. The designers are free to design the hit system so that the enemies have a tendency to slide back towards the camera. I'm just as free to avoid the game because I don't want to get good at turning my analog stick at just the right angle because they slid back in a way that makes no sense.
That isn't me attacking the game, there are obviously a lot of people who really like the game. I've been gaming since the Atari days and I've grown to have my own set of likes and dislikes for games.
I will say there was something really addictive about the game. I wanted to keep playing despite the frustration, but the frustration itself was due to mechanics I simply don't like (and the slowness of the play is a huge pet peeve of mine. I played Tales of the Abyss on emulator because I couldn't deal with the slow load times on the actual PS2, I actually stopped playing the game because of them).
OTOH, I ordered my PS4 from Amazon and it bricked w/i 6 hours of getting it, so maybe if I put in a bit more time I'll learn how they want you to play the game... We'll see, I could not believe it when the PS4 shut off and refused to start up again.
Haha, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The game really is meant to be bullshit and to hurt you. From what I've seen though, Bloodborne has a lot less bullshit mechanics-wise than the previous games. Just look at the Capra Demon fight from Dark Souls: small room with pillars all over, one huge boss and two attack dogs crammed in there with you. Your weapons bounce back when you hit the geometry; theirs don't. Have fun. Also: The Archers in Anor Londo.
For me though, that's part of what makes it special. It wouldn't feel so good actually getting past the obstacles if it was fair.
> No, it matters which part of the weapon hits the enemy. With the hammer for instance, you really need to aim it right - to hit the enemy with the head part and not the hilt part.
I haven't played bloodborne but if it's anything like its predecessors that shouldn't be the only mechanic at play.
Weapons that combo (which in bloodborne seems to be all of them) will do different amounts of damage on different stages of the combo and if your hit connects during an active frame of the enemy it will get a counter attack damage bonus (based off of the thrust damage of your attack).
Yeah, that's what bounced me off of older DS games as well - after playing games like Bayonetta (which are of similar genre) the slow clunky controls, downright bad interface and having to slog through the same groups of slow enemies to retry a boss was simply too annoying.
The combat of Demon's Souls turned me off of the series because I was looking for something like Bayonetta 2, and this was years before Bayonetta 2 would even be announced.
If you similarly tried Demon's Souls and felt like it was just a little too slow and clunky, you might want to give Dark Souls a try if you can find a way to avoid paying for it. Don't pirate it, but if you have a ps3 or an xbox 360, see if one of your friends can loan it to you. The combat isn't faster, but it feels much smoother than its predecessor, and as long as you can get into the mindset of "block, counterattack, dodge" as opposed to the Bayonetta mindset of "Dance stylishly around the enemies and string together intricate juggle combos because you want to break the system over your knee", you might find that you enjoy it more than you expect.
I'm only a few bosses in, but it definitely feels like there's less slogging through the levels to retry bosses as well, which I agree was a major complaint about Demon's Souls
Most of the randomness you mention isn't actually random, it's just stuff you haven't figured out yet. For example, weapon damage isn't random at all, but it depends on various factors like your character and weapon stats, whether your weapon is extended or not, what the enemy is doing (blocking, neutral, attacking) and any resistances it may have, and so on.
Just to give you an idea, it took me 7 or 8 years to beat Kingdom Hearts 1 because of how bad the camera was. I got to a point where I just walked away. I really dislike games that are difficult due to ackward controls, cheesy mechanics (such as enemies popping behind you in an area you just cleared), that sort of thing
I played it for a few hours but I got tired of things like
- you roll and the camera lifts up so you're staring down at yourself and can no longer see the enemies you rolled from
- if you hit the enemy at the end of your range your attack pushes them back further than your characters steps forward so you miss the followup attack and they end up killing you (or hurting you badly).
- Sometimes when you attack an enemy they'll slide sideways (I say sometimes, I mean quite often). I've seen them slide so far they slide behind the camera at which point you're guessing where they are based upon where they disappeared.
- Your attacks do random amounts of damage. Sometimes it takes 3 hits to kill a mob, sometimes 4 or 5. But because every attack uses stamina, you really want to use as few attacks as possible and sometimes you die for it because that 1 random enemy required an extra hit. I never figured out why.
- the healing items appeared to give a random amount of health back.
- Some of the level designs appeared to be such that it maximized the pain of the camera. One enemy in particular I'm thinking of is big and surroundedin by innumerable unbreakable boxes and such. He wasn't that difficult himself, but being able to avoid his attack successfull due to the aforementioned boxes, etc, was a tedious chore.
I can see the appeal to the game, but it just isn't for me. And this is coming from a guy who plays most games on hard. But there's a certain kind of difficulty I don't enjoy and unfortunately this game lands right square in the middle of it.
edit: The thing that caused me to respond in the first place.
The game moves slow overall. You kill an enemy, he drops loot, but not immediately, so you end up waiting to see if he dropped loot. If he does, you run to the body, hit X, wait for the confirmation to pop up, hit X again, and then eventually go on about your day. When you're playing the same level over and over again it gets really time consumingly tedious. Add on to that the 30 second load screen (that's not an exaggeration) and you have a game that's pure tedium (atleast for me).